PETA is as dumb and extremist an organisation as the evangelicals of the right. Extremists do NOT represent the ideals of being a liberal or a conservative. They just represent people who need a life.

Personally, I want my Thanksgiving turkey. And I want it killed for me, so I can eat it all up. Yum.

Regarding PETA's dessert, they are running afoul of the FDA: In accordance with the Nutrition Labeling and Education Act of 1990, the Food and
Drug Administration enforces a set of standards which regulate the labeling of
food products. Ice cream is defined as a frozen food made from a mixture
of dairy products, containing at least 10% milkfat. If you're gonna be dairy-free then you can't call it ice cream. You can call it "frozen dessert", or more accurately, "frozen crap" - because that's what it will taste like.

Just because you don't like the organization doesn't mean that some of their points are not correct or valid. This is why there is such an intense detest between modern conservatives and liberals, people can't think for themselves anymore.

I'm not offended, but the ad is just plain stupid. Stupid, stupid stupid. Turkey's are bread for consumption and in this country, dogs are not. Comparing appels and oranges.

The reason I voted "yes" is because kids have very little control over what gets served on Thanksgiving. It's parents (and other relatives) that plan, buy and cook the food. So PETA is now laying a guilt trip on kids, and THAT offends me!

As for PETA (Perfect Example of Total Absurdity), I'd like to tell them that Turkeys are Animals, and so are People. Animals eat other animals all the time, so WHY SHOULD I FEEL GUILTY ABOUT EATING A TURKEY??? Does a tiger feel guilty about eating a gazelle? Further, if I were hungry enough and nothing else was around, a dog would not be off-limits. It wouldn't be pleasant, but that's the way it goes.

I've been a veggie for over thirty years. My wife convinced me to go for it (after she already did). Second best thing she ever did for me!

In fact, the thought has occurred to me that at least some of the craziness in America today might be chalked up to our meat heavy diet. I wrote an article about it:

Repeating Rome's Decline

http://porterrockwell.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/06/8672721-repeating-romes-decline

Jeff P-14, it is Apples, not appels.

I think Pita asks a valid question, if you are willing to eat turkey, why not feast on Fido as well? Could be the answer to our stray pet and hunger problems in one easy solution.

Offensive, no. Funny as hell, yes. I'm thinking kids are going to be more freaked-out than anything. Didn't PETA try to get kids to not eat fish by calling fish 'seakittens'? How well did that work?

As for Tofurkey, it is an abomination. Serving anyone Tofurkey is guaranteed to turn them into a rampant carnivore.

Zoroaster,

Don't forget the stray cats. They have meat on them. As for eating dogs, Anyone ever been to Korea? Don't get too attached to Fido.

Melissa - If you don't have anything valid to add to the thread, don't bother wasting space by being the spell-checker police. It may make you feel intelligent, but you're not adding to the conversation.

I guess PETA has a right to their opinions but they should also respect my right to willfully decline their push for me to be a vegan/vegetarian. The fact that they use a dog and compare it to turkey is ridiculous. The second one of those PETA fanatics can show me video of them keeping a turkey as a companion animal/pet, playing fetch, taking it for a walk, and using it for drug busts, I might consider their argument. Until then, I'll stick with my turkey-eating ways.

Ha! They need to reconsider the design. By highlighting the "Kids" and "Eat Your Dog" lines in color, the rest in black type, and due to placement, this message at a quick glance reads Kids: eat your dog. Not the message Pita intended I'm sure.

PETA is the essence of hypocrisy! How can a group who's name stands for "People for the Eating of Tasty Animals" actually argue against eating one of the tastier animals out there? It's insane.

All you need to know about PETA:

PETA under fire over claim it kills most animals left at its US Headquarters:

"The high-profile charity, famous for its "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" campaigns, has euthanised more than 20,000 pets in the last decade, according to figures it has supplied to Virginia state officials.

Peta insists that homes could not be found for the dogs and cats, usually because they were in such poor health or because they were "unsocialised" and aggressive, usually because of bad treatment by their owners.

But the organisation, which does not run its own animal adoption programme and does not accept animals into its care elsewhere, admitted to The Sunday Telegraph that some treatable and adoptable animals were also among those killed by lethal injection."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/5106600/Peta-under-fire-over-claim-that-it-kills-most-animals-left-at-its-US-headquarters.html

My Daughter and Son are both charter members of People Eating Tasty Animals (peta) Not associated with the nut jobs at the other PETA.

Turkey will be the main course at our Thanksgiving. Then Turkey Sandwiches for the next couple days after.

#Derek-381097

I wonder why you have to bring politics and religion into a Peta ad?

A lot of attempted humor here, yet full of ignorance. Bring a child to an abattoir if you're so funny, it will soon put them off. As far as 'I want my turkey killed for me...yum', if you're so clever, why not go kill it yourself? Didn't think so.

I understand why people would be a bit annoyed by the campaign, but you don't have to be so cruel, or more importantly, smug on the matter. I suppose it all boils down to the matter of having a conscience, something children have in abundance.

Dear PETA

Wheat, corn, soybeans, all have feelings too I'll have you know. You people are just to cruel and careless to hear their anguish during harvest and milling. It's blood curdling! So now what are you going to eat?

Signed

PFTETOFNGAV (People For The Ethical Treatment Of Fruits, Nuts, Grains, And Vegetables)

Randi you are correct, however PETA isn't one of those as their opinion is based on lies and misinformation.

Secondly, I've eaten dog and personally like turkey better.

Children have ignorance in abundance, not necessarily a conscience or the ability to use one properly.

Unless you are very stringent in your diet as a vegan or vegetarian, you will miss necessary vitamins that you would otherwise get from meat and other animal products.

While being a healthy vegan or vegetarian is possible, few people I know are willing to pay such close attention to their diet to supplement the vitamins they'd miss or are willing to take supplements at all.

Killing a turkey doesn't have to do with 'clever'. Killing a turkey has to do with being able to find a healthy, meaty one, chop its head off, hang it upside down to drain out, pluck its feathers, chop off its feet, wash it and prepare it for cooking by removing its entrails. Clever, yes? No. It takes skill and a hunting license.

Now, is it clever to do a job so that you don't have to do the dirty work and get to enjoy a turkey ready-to-cook? Yes, that is clever.

Please, get a dictionary. I didn't see people being 'smug', and am not sure you know what it means.

And - why the hell would you ever take a kid to a butcher shop? Really? Why don't you take the kid to a tofu processing plant and show them exactly how it is made, because that will turn them off from that as well.

*Checks watch*

Hum... It has been at least 5 mins since PETA did something stupid for attention....

...Didn't I just say this today about their bawww fit over Super Mario? These wannabe attention trolls really move fast!

Like I said in my Super Mario post: Ignore them. They feed on this attention like the Westboro Baptist Church. Like the WBC: If you ignore them, they will wither out and die... Whether they DIAF or just disband remains to be seen.

People are not going to stop eating turkeys bred and raised to be eaten - better idea would be to go after the farmers that perpetuate the "horrors faced by farm-raised turkeys".

Also, farm-raised turkeys are not sensitive, curious, creatures - they are bred so stupid that they will stare at the sky when it is raining and drown.

PETA...the organization is made up of hypocrites..UNLESS.. they are total vegetarians, do not wear leather shoes, do not carry leather purses, do not wear leather jackets, do not wear leather belts..and on and on.

save a tofurky eat the real thing!

Regardless of how extreme or not you may feel Peta can be, they do have some valid points. In general, Americans do overconsume meat and there are various environmental and obesity factors associated with overconsumption.

Josh Mattox: Yes, boycotting Mario is a bit crazy, BUT DID YOU WATCH THIS VIDEO ABOUT RACCOON DOGS AND WHAT THEY DO TO THEM?!?! I warn everyone in advance that the video is difficult to watch, but extremely eye-opening. I have been worried sick since seeing that they skin these animals alive and I want to do something, anything to help.

@Air-591568 I did not see the video, but I can tell you this:

There is no correlation between that video and a video game character or a video game. Last I checked: You can't wear fur instantly by eating a leaf or a mushroom.

As I have said: Ignore PETA and nothing of value will be lost.

PETA is running for a bunch of animals dressing like humans.

I'm sorry PETA but even Vegans having to kill something that's living to eat. Plants don't have liquid brown eyes but they were still a living organism until somebody cruelly rip it from the ground so you could eat. Some things have to die so others can survive. It's a cold hard fact of life.

Regardless of WHAT the commercial says or implies or attempts to suggest...

PETA is simply IRRELEVANT to the personal lives of people they do not know.

It is simply NONE of PETA's or anyone else's business what ANY individual chooses to eat or feed to their family.

Regardless of any potential value in their message, they completely cancel that out by INVADING the personal choices of others.

I wonder how many PETA members take offense at ANYONE questioning a "woman's right to choose?"

How could an entire family's "right to choose" be ANY different.

Efen PETA can stick their UNINVITED OPINIONS up their efen ignorant butts.

I don't believe in killin them poor birds. I buy them at the store where they are already dead.

Eat some more veggies and die of listeria or get some mushrooms and kill your kidneys and then you.

PETA - go away when you go down the road that you are in this article.

Someone should tell Peta that a large majority of the world would not only eat the turkey but they eat the dog too. That should keep them up at nights. LOL

Yep have a soybean hamburger instead! Peta doesn't want you to have a pork roast or some great steaks or that beautifully roasted fish or rack of lamb!

I cannot believe that people on here are actually saying that PETA makes sense.

PETA is nothing but a bunch of raving lunatics.

yes PETA is a joke but no1 is doing anything about the animal tourters in some big comapanies yet. when are ppl gona start speakink out agaisnt the goverment for protecting these companies? is it fair to the ppl who eat it or the animals who are being tourtered? PETA does make a point there, these animals must stop living in cages crushed thier entire life. thats as nasty and cruel as it gets. i go to farmer markets for my meats.

Even the organizations name is wrong: PETA = PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS I'm mean come on.

Turkey is way better eating than dog. How many people have a pet turkey that sits, lays down, rolls over, and begs for attention? Let alone live in your house. If so i'd be alittle worried about the relationship you have with the turkey.

Then do what I do, support your local sustainable farms, the ones that grow organic, or raise their animals using organic feed. I've been to those slaughtering plants, they're horrible! You can smell the fear and death.

Slaughtering an animal doesn't have to be traumatic, and you don't have to eat meat full of steroids, antibiotics, or growth hormones. Even some of the big grocery stores are now offering meats that are organically raised...cost a bit more, but it's worth it. They TASTE so much better.

I don't agree with the way PETA does things at all. They're emphasizing their opinion that people shouldn't eat animals at all. Well, from what I've seen, most people, including myself, go vegan because the animals on about 95% of our farms are TORTURED on a daily basis and forced to live in horrible conditions. If you don't know what I'm talking about, do a Youtube search for "factory farming" or watch the movie Earthlings.

This offends Americans so much because it is too true - and based on all the nutty religious people in this country it's clear to see we prefer and demand make-believe over truth.

The main difference between eating a turkey and a dog (or a cat, or a gerbil, or a bug) is cultural. Most of us believe what we were indoctrinated to believe as a child - and it often isn't based on reality but rather tradition, dogma and social norms. This explains why the advertisement offends people so much - it threatens their safe and comfortable world-order from outside influence. This is basic sociology and psychology at play...

Turkey? Dog? Turkey-dog? I'd still eat it, Overlord.

Do yu suppose it tastes like chicken?

1 billion Chinese can't be wrong!

I'm just wondering what kind of wine would go with it.

I eat turkey hotdogs all the time - what's the big deal?

Armando...Sauvignon Blanc. Clearly.

I get the wishbone! Wait, dogs don't have a wishbone! Damit!! Oh well, guess I'll stick with turkey.

Save a cow, eat a vegan.

no wishbone is bad but 4 legs would be good!

There used to be a dog on PBS named Wishbone....

People Eating Tasty Animals....There is a place for all God's creatures....right next to the taters 'n' gravy.

I'm a liberal; I'm a member of the next generation; and I love meat. COME ON PETA!!!! This is NOT how you attract support. And by the way, don't ANIMALS eat other animals. Last time I checked, HUMANS ARE ANIMALS, just a bit more intelligent. Why the hell can I not eat a chicken or an egg while lions tigers get to chomp on some tasty gazelle? You PETA guys are producing an irrational argument and might want to take a course in debating. Look, I respect your right to express and vegetarianism and veganism, but let the kids decide for themselves and try not to get served when people point out how animals eat other animals. And yes, the Knorr ad for chicken stock IS priceless!

I hate these dumb, overbearing bastards , this crap is not funny, these radicals will not stop at just telling us what to eat! Big freedoms are breached a little at a time! It is Americans duty to question and resist every single thing done by government!

I guess now peta will start to stand for -people eating trained animals?

If you wouldn't eat your dog? Pshaw, I'd eat the dog. Don't get too attached to the livestock. It all makes it to the table eventually.

I wouldn't be so sure about using that slogan. Quite a few beers are NOT vegan, since they use animal byproducts. Guinness is the first non-vegan beer that comes to mind. I think they use some part of a particular kind of fish to accelerate the brewing process.

What kind of animal by-products are used in beer? Are you counting capturing all those hard working little yeasts? They are one celled animals you know.

Ingredients for beer: grain, water, hops, yeast

I understand they use material from the air bladders of fish. That's AIR bladders, the organs they use to control their buoyancy.

Armando

Very true. Guinness is not veggie. Foster's is another that comes to mind as well as almost all ale's. Port and Sherry are also off-limits

I found the irony laughable too. An ad for chicken stock on a PETA story. Priceless.

I see the very same add. Well done ad placement software. You picked the perfect ad this go around.

Speaking of which, doesn't the 'chef' in the Knorr ad look like a serial killer? He is freaking me out.

MDRN-

He does look like a serial killer! Look at the size of those hands!

that's why I haven't purchased this product. the commerical & the spokesperson are sort of creepy.

It's times like this that I wish i didn't use ad-block.

OMG I totally missed the ad! That's priceless!

F PETA... proving on a daily basis what a pathetically shallow, embarrassing, ineffective and useless group they truly are.

"Legends in their own feeble minds"

Ahhh, thanks. This is the funniest thread I've read in a while :) We've got the chicken serial killer placed below a PETA article. Perfect.

I've got the Knorr's ad also. Look at the size of that paw.

Turned off adblocker just to see the irony. Marco is quite the creepy looking guy in that ad.

My 5 year old says McDonald's is terrible food and it is bad for you. She does however love the taste of KFC.

You want someone to go dig up skeletons in PETA's closet? What exactly do you expect to find that you could use to make PETA look any more stupid than they already manage to do to themselves on a day to day basis...

In order for your plan to work, people outside the organization need to take the organization seriously first.

Skeletons of all the dogs they kill every year because being dead is better than being in a no-kill shelter? They try to gloss over it on their website, but they admit to taking dogs from shelters and killing them.

Oh, wait. It that irony that I sense?

Getting out of control? They've always been out of control, but the masses used to buy their BS. They applauded when PETA was throwing paint on people wearing fur, which constitutes assault. It's only when it finally visits something near and dear to them, that people get all up in arms. Although I'm glad their true colors are finally coming to the forefront, it still pi$$es me off that nobody was screaming when they started and got a foothold. They kill more pets than any other rescue organization and they don't exactly do it humanely. They could care less about animals and they the least about the human animal!

I wouldn't say PETA is out of control. I give them NO control in my life.

Peta to kids: Don't eat turkey!

Parents of kids to Peta: Stay the hell out of my kitchen, leave my kids alone, and kiss my ass!! Go suck on a lemon, Peta!

Thanksgiving - turkey dinner, football on the television, good friends and family, happy, happy, joy, joy!!

BTW - wouldn't that be insulting the Native Americans, passing up on turkey for some flaky substitute that tastes like glue and cardboard? Bleah!

Be equally concerned by their brothers in arms, HSUS, who are nothing more than anti-hunting wack-a-loons. Anything coming from either of these groups are nothing but lies.

Maybe because Wayne Pacelle, head of HSUS, formerly worked for Ingrid Newkirk. HSUS does do a lot as far as breaking up dog fighting rings, etc., but they're NOT a shelter.

The only thing I'll credit PETA for is campaigning against skinning living and aware animals for fur. Watch one of those videos and I guarantee nightmares for a while. Otherwise they're useless. Not only that, they fund two terrorist organizations, ALF, and ELF.

They know that they aren't making any progress with adults who can think for themselves so they try to brainwash the kids at an early age. Kind of similar to a cult, wouldn't ya say?

@ DmaninIowa - This actually the perfect teaching moment for parents to have with their children about PETA and their fight for the animals. The conversation should go something like this:

• Parent to children - Children, did you know there is the group called PETA? They think it's wrong to eat meat. They say you children shouldn't eat this delicious turkey we baked and should only eat the vegetables we cooked. -Points out the peas, cooked carrots, and green beans.- Oh and many of the other goodies we made are made from animal so they don't want you to eat them either. That means no milk with your cookies or whipped cream on your pumpkin pie or cheese on your baked potato or broccoli. You have to pick the bacon bits out of the green beans too. So what do you guys think about PETA?
• Children - PETA SUCKS!!!

Lesson accomplished....

Good point. And as an animal lover I have made contributions to PETA through mailings when they send you calendars or address labels. But seeing they are wasting their money on adds like this will make me think twice next time.

I think they're subscribing to the Phillip Morris marketing philosophy: "get 'em while they're young"

Not only does PETA use overly extremist approaches to just about everything, they don't care about the facts, just spreading misinformation that helps them make an impact (which I guess is part of the extremist approach). I've had conversations with people who belong to PETA, and it boggles my mind the amount of misinformation that came out of their mouth, that they heard from PETA.

You can be against animal abuse and have absolutely nothing to do with PETA and think they are stupid. I do, and they are.

You can also be against animal abuse and NOT be a vegan\vegetarian.

Most of these ads are created to create "awareness" - it all starts with an awareness of things. Yea, they rub some people the wrong way but the core message is what Im in favor of, forget the rest.

A much better organization is ASPCA. They fight animal abuse but aren't crazy. There is a page on their website with a list of where they stand on various topics.

Problem is that PETA actually has the resources and donation base to make a difference in fighting animal abuse. Instead they squander it by alienating the vast majority of people. I think I'm going to have turkey for din tonight in honor of them.

PETA is the Westboro Baptist Church of the anti-animal abuse movement.

@sympatica...If you hate the abuse of animals, start reading some REAL news about PETA. Evidently, you're on that's been buying the crap they've been selling for decades. You're just a fish on their hook!

Meat is murder!*

*delicious murder

A MAJOR PROBLEM with the "stop abusing animals in the vegan crowd" is how much they FAIL to realize about "all plants and living things" from a strictly Scientific point of view.

#1. For anyone who has ever studied either Botany or Zoology, it is common knowledge that ALL LIVING THINGS contain some type of CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM. As "whether or not" plants FEEL PAIN is a fair and reasonable topic of discussion.

#2. Before "some PETA people" start screaming about the "supposed PAIN inflicted upon other members of the Animal kingdom" THEY (PETA) may want to "carefully consider" how TRULY PAINFUL IT MUST BE for ANY PLANTS TO BE UPROOTED, CHOPPED, DICED, CRUSHED, Frozen and cooked while they're STILL ALIVE?

Sounds a bit "extreme or even absurd" huh?

But guess what?

Based on the Physiology of the Central Nervous Systems of Plants, it is simply a very, very real possibility that ALL PLANTS also suffer as they are harvested in mass all over the world.

So PETA fans, please save your whining about the "feelings of other LIVING things" while you completely ignore, in fact never mention the "true feelings" of the plants you and all the vegans out there so casually DESTROY?

Then they'll all say, "Oh but that's different!"

Why? Because the vegans say so?

Living things are living things... we all make choices which "living things" we wish to consume.

At the end of the day, YOU make YOUR choices... let others make their own!

your points are pointless and add nothing of value to this discussion. It's painfully obvious with your ignorant statements that you have never bothered to do any kind of research on this topic and prefer to subject others to your mindless banter. do everyone a favor and move on.

kbrown -

your points are pointless and add nothing of value to this discussion. It's painfully obvious with your ignorant statements that you have never bothered to do any kind of research on this topic and prefer to subject others to your mindless banter. do everyone a favor and move on.

right. if you could see what goes on inside factory farming, you probably would never touch the stuff either, I did and I dont.

EXACTLY!!! Their goal is to promote veganism, which means no meat of any kind, no eggs, no cow-dairy (but "soymilk" is okay), etc, etc, etc. Oh, and 13th Amendment rights for killer whales and your dog - don't you know pet ownership is a form of slavery, in their minds?

SO don't buy meat from a "factory farm". Buy it locally produced.

Or hunt it, my favorite!

I'm a member of PET-V, People for the Ethical Treatment of Vegetables! Veggies feel pain too! The poor plants are ripped from the earth or the plant that they've known as parent for their entire life. Then the real horrors begin: peeling, slicing, dicing, chopping: boiling in hot water; frying in oil; baking in ovens.

Damn.... I'm getting hungry. Can I get a turkey sandwich with that salad please?

I'm a member of PETA - people eating tasty animals. All those vegans farting are depleting the ozone with their methane.

My message to vegans and assorted vegetarians:

It is completely unnatural to NOT eat meat. You do not have the dental make up to be an herbivore. Herbivores have flat round teeth, we have sharp pointy teeth for a reason; to seperate meat from bones. It's also quite likely eating fish and other monkeys made our ape ancestors have accelerated brain development (high protein, etc.; keep the juvenile jokes please).

So why would you take a step backwards in evolution? Out of an irrational emotion? Because emotions are totally irrational...not that I say totally ignore emotion, but they do not come from the rational part of the brain. Rational decisions require setting aside emotions.

Not eating meat is unnatural, evolutionarily backwards, and based purely on emotional arguments. True, too much red meat is bad for you, but too much of anything is bad for you. Too much oxygen can kill you (02 is good, 03 is poison). I just don't understand the rationale behind NOT eating meat. Try making the factory farms more responsible, or making less of them by ending regulations on family farms that drive them out of business and cause monopolization by these big factory farms. But for the love of God, stop acting like being an herbivore is natural and preferable.

We are omnivores, and eating meat is GOOD, NATURAL, and POSITIVE you emotional self righteous d-bags. That is all.

I'll be having ham, greenbeans, biscuits, cranberry sauce, and mashed taters. Oh and lets not forget the pumpkin pie with cool whip and a Diet Pepsi.

We cook both a turkey and a ham, cranberries, mashed potatoes, home made rolls, Home-made pumpkin and pecan pies, salads galore and several different drinks.

Turducken, shipped from Louisiana!

Not to mention our dogs would love nothing better than a nice turkey dinner for themselves.
I doubt we could eat our dog. He's a pom. Too hard to get past the fluff.

Animal cruelty is what they snag you with, they could care less about animal cruelty!

I'd eat a CHEESEburger in front of a Cow.

FTFY

Humans are opportunistic omnivores. We can eat meat, but don't need to to live in perfect health. We do have sharper teeth in the front, but those are better served for taking bites out of fruit than ripping raw meat. Carnivores have cutting molars and mouths that can open wide enough so that they can use those molars to cut meat off their prey. They don't use their incisors. So to see what type of food we are "designed" to eat we should look past our front teeth and at our molars which are those of a herbivore.

Also our digestive system is one evolved for a diet of higher quality plants (such as fruits and select vegetables) but not one evolved for low quality plants like grass and most leaves. We also have the ability to digest meat as well, but can not subsist on even a substantially carnivorous let alone exclusively meat based diet.

Undoubtedly our ancestors depended on plants for the majority of their food given how dependent on plants for key nutrients like vitamin C (which carnivores can make and don't need to get from food) and fiber to keep the GI train moving and on time, and supplemented their diet with meat when ever they could scavenge or a hunt was successful.

Being able to take advantage of either source of calories was undoubtedly a survival advantage. However, the diet of primitive humans really doesn't have anything to do with modern humans in our current high technology culture. We don't have any access issues to all the high quality vegetable foods necessary for complete and quite probably superior health. And we have developed an animal husbandry system that is sickening in its depravity. If anybody still thinks cows in the pasture, chickens scratching in the yard and pigs rooting about as having anything at all to do with the way the vast majority of food animals are treated you either are happily wearing the blinders the animal industries have placed on your eyes, or are without empathy and compassion, or are just in complete denial. The absolute imperative to produce as much meat, milk or eggs per animal at absolutely the lowest possible price has forced out of business producers who treats their animals well and lead to practices that are so barbaric as to turn the stomach.

So eat meat if that is what you feel you must do, at least have the courage to really examine where your meat comes from. Visit a CAFO (concentrated animal feeding operation) and see (and especially smell) the mountains of manure that beef cattle spend the last half of their lives living on, or the wire battery cages the size of a file cabinet drawer that 5-6 hens will spend every moment of their 18 month lives in, or the hog pens located above open cesspools (imagine your bed being a grate above a latrine pit and hogs btw have noses better than dogs). It is best if you can actually visit a CAFO, but it might be difficult since the meat and egg industries really want to keep the public ignorant of how their food is raised and probably won't allow you to visit. They have even successfully lobbied to make it illegal to secretly video their operations (they did this under the cover of "national security" following 9/11).

If you can take that challenge and still feel good about yourself as you eat the product of such misery then at least you aren't eating out of ignorance any longer.

I'm glad I kept reading the comments until I finally found one that makes sense!!

Go hug a tree with that other insanity based group of nonconformists

Which one was it JS?

vinegaroon: the truth is tough to accept sometimes, respecting the living creatures that provide you with food does not mean being a 'tree hugger'. Being compassionate is something more people should learn to do, animals that are factory farms have absolutely horrible lives and have done nothing to deserve such treatment. People such as yourself are so ignorant!

It's obvious that James has never been to a farm of any type and likely never even been outside the city he lives in. The only "nature" he sees is the local city park. He gets his information on animal "farming" methods from the PETA propaganda machine that in many cases is 20 to 30 years out of date. Many pig farms today harvest the "waste" from the pigs to produce methane gas to power the entire farm. Oh, no. Clean "Green" energy from evil "meat" production. What will the liberal, Eco-Nazis do??

I live in a rural area in GA with chicken, turkey, pork and beef farms. There are also several goat farms where all you lefties get your "goat cheese". I see the cows in the pastures every day. What James says is pure PETA BS.

Come on. Turkey's are so stupid they will drown themselves if you leave them outside in the rain. Actually saw it happen on Grandparents farm when I was growing up.

James - I do understand the points you are making but I doubt early man had year round access to fresh fruits and vegetables. I don't think you can survive on nuts (if you can find enough) for 6 months every year. Should we kill all the predator animals that sometimes eat another animal while it is still alive? If big argiculture has it way all our fruits and vegetables will be GM and we don't even know what that is doing to our bodies. It seems our whole food supply in this country are ingredients we can't pronounce and high fructose corn syrup. Like everything else food production is becoming all about the dollar and not what is best for people. There are lots of things to fight out there but I don't know if we can every win and too many don't care.

kbrown, I've read quite a few of your comments on these threads. I understand that over-used sayings are annoying. My maiden name was Gold- I can't even begin to tell you how many "Good as Gold" and "Golden Girl" jokes I've heard over the course of my lifetime. However, being rude to someone is not necessary. Mocking people and calling them rude things as you did in this thread will not make people respect you or your opinions. If you're really that angry about this, I suggest taking a nice vacation, bath, or even getting a massage, and then coming back and RESPECTFULLY expressing yourself.

I can eat what ever the hell I want with out suffering guilt.

I completely agree, major2. Turkeys and cows were not made to be snuggly house pets. Unless we want them to just multiply and wander aimlessly, the only other option is to eat them. They're not good for anything else.

Vegans-

Please take your long-winded explanations for why we should not eat meat and stuff it.

James, you're folling yourself if you think our teeth are omnivorous (and carnivorous predominately). Show me the point in human history where we ate MOSTLY non-meats...there isn't one.

Hunter gatherers HUNTED. Agrarians mass produced livestock. Industrialists turned livestock into an industry. Technologic based society (what we are moving toward) will use technology to mass produce healthier, leaner, and better tasting meats. At no point will most of the species be herbivores. At no point will our dental make up be round flat teeth. BTW, our molars are NOT herbivore...they are designed to break bones, hence their crowns and not flat tops. Just stop your rationalization...admit you do it out of emotion.

We are certainly omnivores evolutionarily, and carnivores predominately, not herbivores predominately.

That is all, James.

James, you're fooling yourself if you think our teeth aren't omnivorous (and carnivorous predominately).*

Here is a great site that explains what each type of tooth is for. It put the information in simple terms so the vegan/AR can understand:

http://www.zephyrus.co.uk/teeth.html

They also sent the WH humane fly catching devices so you can release them outside once caught, just to fly back inside again.

Fun for the whole family.

I hear they are researching humane roach motels too. It will have a turn down service and a swimming pool.

NYMike, hahahahahaha! Hilarious. Almost spit my water all over my keyboard.

ps: that fly catching thingy would be a way to keep the children busy...

They are all hypocrites. They eat plants, which is food for these precious animals they worship. That is taking the food out of these turkey, cows, deer, bunnies mouths. How can they do that? They are starving the very animals they say they love and support.

They are so busy trying to save animals they seem to forget that while they don't walk or moo or bark plants are alive as well. When you rip a plant from the ground simply because they are not vocal does not mean they don't feel it. There are plenty of studies out there that suggest plants do feel pain. If it were up to P.E.T.A. we'd all be eating cardboard.

JoMan and SNAPPA great use of hyperbole to illustrate the ridiculousness of the critics of vegetarianism. "Taking the food out of bunnies mouths" and "plants have feelings" perfectly lampoons the imbecilic carnivores who make absolutely vapid comments like this. Thank you.

@ snappa. No we cant eat card board. It's made from trees and we can't possibly hurt the poor defenseless trees. They have feelings too you know.

James, life eats life, get over it.

u beat me to it. You can be against animal abuse ( I support ASPCA), and not be a vegan/vegetarian. People for the Eating of Tasty Animals!

Wow....we do NOT have 'canine' teeth. And the People Eating Tasty...is really getting old, come on, come up with something we haven't heard a billion times.

We DO have "canine" teeth, kbrown, they are also known as "cuspid" and are third back from the front-center teeth, known as "incisor"

It's true KBrown...ask your dentist what they're called and what their purpose is...

We have teeth designed to eat fruits and vegetables. True carnivores have slicing molars (look in a cat or dogs mouth). Those are the teeth used to cut meat off the prey. Canines are used to hold/kill prey. Incisors on carnivores are very small and don't play a substantial role in eating meat. Oh and they have mouths that open very wide so that they can use those molars.

We on the other hand have the teeth of a fruit and vegetable eater. Our incisors for biting into fruit or taking taking bites off of vegetables. Then our flat molars grind it up. Our canines are so small that they would be of no use in grasping prey let along delivering a killing bite.

When we do eat meat we don't have the dental work to slice off pieces of meat with just our teeth. Instead we use our hands and the tools we make with them to cut off bites. And even then try eating a bite of raw steak. Our molars are not the right design to break raw meat down into something we can swallow without the risk of choking to death. Instead we must cook our meat to make it so that it can be broken down by our planter eaters teeth.

And the issues with meat eating don't end with our teeth. Our stomachs aren't nearly acidic enough to break down substantial quantities of raw meat swallowed in large pieces and our intestines are too convoluted and long to handle a diet that has a lot of meat in it.

So yes we can eat meat, but our bodies are not evolved to get majority or even a substantial minority of its food from meat. We are what is biologically called an "opportunistic omnivore". Unlike a true carnivore, we don't need meat to be healthy, but we can eat meat if it is available to supplement our primary diet of fruits and vegetables.

So what is your next argument for why you absolutely must eat meat regardless of what it does to your long term health and untold misery it inflicts on the animals we raise for food.

d@mmit...I did ask a dentist, my father is a dentist...he just shook his head and said 'please tell me you're not conversing with the MSNBC readers who know everything about everything again'.....guilty, sorry Dad

PS-thank you James! Such a relief to have someone that actually knows what they're talking about! I was nearly ready to give up on society, all people have to do is a little research! The resources are out there, use them ppl!

@james367507

Your comment was well worded and thought out,but you forgot something...

Our eyesite is that of a predators. Our eyes are foward facing so we can have depth perception, a trait found on all predators. It is so we can track distance to prey and see motion better.Most herbivores have eyes on the side of thier head so they may see a predator approaching. Even most omnivores have eyes on the side of thier head (eg birds, with the exception of birds of prey which are foward)So i find it hard to believe that we are not ment to eat meat as a main part of our diet.

James-

Where do you come off telling anyone what meat does to their long term health or what misery animals suffer.

Bloody arrogant vegans.

Why don't we eat humans and you be the first to go!

James you're totally incorrect. Ask any dentist.

Here is an NPR article on how eating meat was good for man's evolution.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128849908

Sorry James and KBrown, your wrong. And KBrown if your dad is really a dentist and agreed with James, yikes.

http://www.zephyrus.co.uk/teeth.html

Simple to understand for you vegan/Ar types.

A wild herd of them won't get out of the road when cars come their way.

Where I'm from, we call these buffalos.

My husband was attacked by a herd (flock?) of turkeys once when he was a little kid. It is now his life goal to consume every turkey possible before he dies.

To their credit they are very difficult to hunt. Great eyesight, great hearing, great reflexes but a memory shorter than a rock.

I believe you Fawn, during mating season they get pretty bold.

Turkeys are simple mean spirited animals that taste good roasted.

Wild turkeys are intelligent game birds, domestic turkeys (like most domestic dog breeds) had the brains bred out to make the domestic environment manageable, that is why turkeys drown themselves in a rain storm by opening their beaks with their heads back. It is genetic. These are desirable traits for domesticity.

My cat likes turkey.

lilian101, wild turkeys ARE NOT intelligent game birds...they are stupid game birds. My brother used to track, call in, and trap wild turkeys and then raise them. They were wild turkeys and never got domesticated. They were never intelligent birds by any stretch of the imagination. I also know a guy in New Zealand where they have a similar species of wild turkeys, as my brother hand makes calls and sells them online. He also laughed when discussing the dumb things the turkey do compared to other game birds.

No turkey is smart...a genius turkey is still a retarded chicken at best.

And it's a myth that turkeys drown themselves by looking up in rainstorms. It's an old wive's tale.

And domestic dogs are not dumber than wolves (depending on the breed). We actually bred some breeds to be more intelligent (German shepards for example are highly intelligent).

I know dog breeders, farmers who raise chickens and domestic turkeys, and hunters...and have known all 3 groups my whole life. What you said was wrong.

@ Fawn - When I was a kid, I was attacked by a turkey my uncle kept. I had the last laugh though. We ate that bird that weekend...

lilian, you make it sound like evil geneticists specifically bred turkeys for those traits. The truth is, 50 years ago, genetics was a specialty that was less than 10 years old (My mother was doing the groundbreaking research of genetics in 1950!) The trait for domestic turkeys raising their heads into rain & drowning is a byproduct of other traits which make domestic turkeys desirable, like heavy breast meat, etc. And wild turkeys are no great shakes either in the brains department! I like out in the country, where there are hundreds of wild turkeys around, and they will just stand there staring at you until you make a threatening move.